Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Kenneth Haugland's avatar

Comment from Norway, we have 49 weeks paid family leave full paid up to 70.000$ If the mother is single, you can get up to 3 years of 30.000$ a year. The birth rate is now 1.4, far below the required 2+. As a single mother with many children you can get as money as someone who works here and earns 90.000$ a year (that is without alimony). More money do not solve the birth crisis.

For most women the biggest problem is finding a good man, and they want only the best men (as they have experienced on Tinder) otherwise they will rather have a child on their own than being seen with a man below their standards. For the men, it is really dangerous to get a child with a woman as they compete with the welfare state and have to provide a lot more resources or the mother leaves the man and collect benefits from the state and alimony.

Since there is so much money to be made the women often try to get the children 85-100% to maximise the money they get, and this is pretty easy since you can complain to the police about violence and pedofili and you get full custody. This is pretty normal here but no one talks about it.

As you say this is a lot more complex than more money is good. There is always someone who loses, everything have to be paid by someone else. If you removed all transfers from men to women, the birthrate's would skyrocket, but I do not see that as a viable alternative.

Expand full comment
Joshua Richardson's avatar

Just at a cursory glance, I’m not sure that there’s any correlation between “pro-natalist” or “anti-natalist” government policies and birth rates. I queried ChatGPT and got the following info re: birth rates:

“The 2024 birth rates (per 1,000 people) for the countries you asked about are:

• France: 10.86

• United Kingdom: 11.17

• Germany: 9.32

• Canada: 10.01

• United States: 11.06”

I don’t think that there’s anything to show for paid family leave as being conducive to increased child-bearing. It may be the right thing to do, but I’m not sure arguing that it will boost fertility is the correct argument for making it happen. I don’t see any evidence that those policies boost fertility. I’d rather we argued for it because it’s the right thing to do than argue it based on results that don’t appear in the evidence. Admittedly, this is a cursory check, so there may be evidence that it accomplishes what you’re arguing for, but I’ve never seen any indication of that.

Expand full comment
13 more comments...

No posts